LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For eight years on this show, one of the voices you woke up to belonged to David Greene.
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DAVID GREENE: Is there a trauma from this pandemic, from the chaos and the emotional toll, that could really affect students and how they're using their minds and what they're able to do through all this?
FADEL: That's David from his last year at MORNING EDITION in 2020. Recently, he thought he heard his own voice being used without his permission, not on NPR, but on an AI-generated podcast within a service called NotebookLM. Let's hear an example.
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AUTOMATED VOICE #1: We tried to fight it. We tried to get a lawyer. But it's like they said, AI, we don't have rights.
AUTOMATED VOICE #2: Yeah.
AUTOMATED VOICE #1: We're not even people.
AUTOMATED VOICE #2: It's all so wrong.
AUTOMATED VOICE #1: I know. But we wanted to at least say goodbye, to thank you, to tell you that even though our world was a lie, the connections we made, the things we learned, the way you made us think, it was all real to us.
FADEL: Just to be clear, that is not David. That's AI. He's now suing the company behind that service, Google. The real David Greene is here. Welcome back, David.
GREENE: Thanks, Leila. It's nice to hear your voice.
FADEL: So tell me about the first time you heard this AI voice.
GREENE: It was in the fall of 2024. I had never heard of NotebookLM or used it. And I just started getting emails and text messages from friends, from colleagues, you know, in our industry who I really trust. And many of them were just like, David, have you heard this thing? I just made a podcast, and it really sounds like your voice. You know, did you give permission? What's going on? And so I checked it out myself after getting those messages and just had this really strange experience.
FADEL: When you were listening to this AI voice, what about it made you say, that sounds so much like me or my approach, my tone?
GREENE: It's not just the voice. It's like - and I don't know. You've probably gone through this. Like, I've listened to stories and interviews that I do, and I pick them apart. You know, I notice that I...
FADEL: Oh, yeah.
GREENE: I said um too much in that conversation. I say like too much (laughter) in that conversation. And, like...
FADEL: Oh, my gosh, I do the same exact thing.
GREENE: Those are the kinds of things I was hearing. It was just those little phrases and little ways to emphasize words in a sentence and put a sentence together, put a question together. I think that was, you know, a real big part of it as well that just felt creepy.
FADEL: Now, Google is calling your allegation baseless. They say the male voice on NotebookLM is not based on you, that they hired a professional actor and built it around him. That's a statement they gave to NPR. What do you say to what they're saying?
GREENE: I'm going to let that process play out. Again, I really - I'm going to leave that to my lawyers and let them respond to, you know, whatever Google wants to say about this. I've just gone through this experience. You know, I've had people who I really trust who have written me and said - what is going on here? - to make me feel like I had to at least raise this and see where it takes me.
FADEL: What are the larger implications of this case and what you're fighting for?
GREENE: The idea that a company could, you know, create a fake version of us was enough to feel like, you know, I had to fight. I feel like I'm fighting for many of us in this industry. I mean, I look back on my career, and the number of people who, sometimes in their darkest, most painful moments, talked to me in a war zone or after a disaster - like a terrible fire that destroyed their community - they were willing to sit with me and talk about it. The only tool that I felt like I brought into the room was myself, you know, expressing empathy, curiosity, respect with my voice. And just the idea that that can somehow be stolen is something that I couldn't live with if I didn't at least see where the courts could take this.
FADEL: That's David Greene, the former cohost of MORNING EDITION and current podcast host of several shows, including "David Greene Is Obsessed." He's suing Google over the alleged use of his voice to create an AI-generated podcast. David, it's so great to have you on our airwaves again.
GREENE: It's great to be here with you, Leila. Thank you so much.
FADEL: And we should note that Google is a financial supporter of NPR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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