MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
President Trump's latest Russia-Ukraine peace plan appeared to be making headway, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio praising it and special envoy Steve Witkoff planning a visit to Moscow.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Then we learned something about the process leading to this moment - Bloomberg published a transcript of a phone call between Steve Witkoff and an adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The news service says it listened to her recording and made that transcript. NPR has not independently confirmed the story. The transcript gives insight into how Witkoff encouraged Russia to manage President Trump and includes his suggestion to develop a peace plan. Coming up, we'll hear from the most recent U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, who resigned earlier this year. We start with that Bloomberg report.
MARTIN: We're going to go now to NPR's Eleanor Beardsley, who's following all this from Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Good morning, Eleanor.
ELEANOR BEARDSLEY, BYLINE: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So when did this call happen, and who was on it?
BEARDSLEY: Well, it took place in mid-October. It was between envoy Steve Witkoff and Yuri Ushakov, who is an adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin, and it was right after Trump sanctioned Russia's two biggest oil companies. And Witkoff is right off his success in the Middle East and suggests there could be a similar deal between Russia and Ukraine. And he encourages Ushakov to get Putin to call Trump, praise his Mideast peace deal and flatter him. Witkoff also mentioned Zelenskyy is coming to the White House soon. He suggests a call with the Russians beforehand, and we know now, Michel, that that call from Putin the day before Zelenskyy's arrival ended any hope Ukrainians had of tomahawk missiles.
And, Michel, there's a second recording and transcript of Ushakov with fellow Russian Kirill Dmitriev, Putin's economic adviser, talking about that 28-point U.S.-Russian peace plan from last week that was seen as favoring Russia, and it's now been heavily amended. It seems it was a Russian plan after all, pushed by these two men, though we cannot confirm that the Trump administration did not make changes. But in the call, economic adviser Dmitriev even says, according to Bloomberg, quote, "I don't think they'll take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible."
MARTIN: As close to it as possible. OK, so how are Ukrainians taking this in?
BEARDSLEY: Well, I spoke with Ukrainian parliament member and chair of the foreign affairs committee, Oleksandr Merezhko. He actually called for Witkoff to be replaced six months ago because what he says is his incompetence and complete lack of knowledge of Ukraine and the origins of the war. So he's not surprised about the latest. Let's listen.
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO: We know that we're dealing with people in the entourage of President Trump who take pro-Russian position, unfortunately, and we knew it long before that. But we have to deal with the team of President Trump, no matter who they are.
MARTIN: And what does President Trump have to say about this?
BEARDSLEY: Well, on Air Force One, Trump didn't address concerns that Witkoff may be pro-Russian, but he brushed off concerns about his methods.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiations. And I would imagine he's saying the same thing to Ukraine 'cause each party has to give and take.
BEARDSLEY: You know, Trump's reaction shocked Merezhko more. He believes Trump should remove Witkoff because he says he is discrediting his administration and the U.S. in the eyes of the world.
MARTIN: So do you have a sense of - I know this is - this just - news just broke, but is there any sense of how these revelations might affect this negotiation? Could it derail things?
BEARDSLEY: Well, Merezhko says not on the Ukrainian side, but he says Putin will reject any peace plan that lets Ukraine survive as a sovereign state. Here he is again.
MEREZHKO: He thinks that he's winning and he cannot stop because any peace might cause domestic problems for him. He believes that he might lose power because of that.
BEARDSLEY: Now, Putin Envoy Dmitriev calls the Bloomberg leaks fake, while another Russian official said they were leaked to, quote, "hinder" U.S.-Russia relations.
MARTIN: That is Eleanor Beardsley for NPR in Kyiv. Eleanor, thank you so much.
BEARDSLEY: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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