Alaska Department of Natural Resources Commissioner John Boyle visited Wood-Tikchik State Park for the first time last week.
While the commissioner was there, he met with Nushagak Cooperative representatives to learn about a proposed hydroelectric project on the Nuyakuk River, which is located within the state park.
Commissioner Boyle stopped by the KDLG office on Friday, July 12 for a conversation about park management, the hydroelectric project, how state and federal lands interact, and how to balance conservation and development. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
KDLG: Commissioner Boyle. Thank you so much for being with us.
Boyle: Glad to be here!
KDLG: You just spent a week in Wood-Tikchik State Park. How was that trip?
Boyle: Well, I had the opportunity to get up to Fourth Lake, and it was just a spectacular trip. This is my first visit to this part of the state. To see this system of water, and these lakes, and these rivers, and these streams that are all interconnected and all so important and vital to the world renown sockeye salmon resource that we have in this part of the world was just fascinating to see. And the great diversity of plant and animal life along the way, I mean, it really is an amazing place.
KDLG: In terms of how that park gets managed, how that resource gets used, there's a lot of questions in terms of how you balance, say, conservation with development. And I heard that one of the stops you made was at a meeting of the Nushagak Cooperative, which is currently studying the feasibility of a hydroelectric project on the Nuyakuk River. And they're trying to see if that project would be safe and feasible for fish. What was that meeting and what's the department's role?
Boyle: That meeting was really just an update for me and understanding of what that project actually entails. It involves DNR because the project is within Wood-Tikchik State Park. And if that project were to move forward, it would require some legislative action actually to remove that area of land from the state parks since state parks aren't organized in a manner that authorizes that kind of industrial use, which would be a lift that the department would have to take on.
KDLG: What was your sense of that project and what are you hoping to see there?
Boyle: Well, I think one really important initiative for Governor Dunleavy and DNR is ensuring that Alaskans have access to affordable, reliable power. If these run-of-river systems can work, if the science tells us that we can install these systems with minimal disruption to fish and wildlife habitat, why wouldn't anybody be excited about that?
I mean, certainly I understand there's some concerns about what impacts there may be on the fisheries. I think, of course, the science and the studies will help inform that. But as a general proposition, in order to have sustainable communities, we have to have sustainable, affordable power.
KDLG: You said there was a legislative change that would need to happen there.
Boyle: I think the process would be, allow these studies, this due diligence process to play out. And if the community and the electrical cooperative decide that this is a project worthy to move forward, then that would be the appropriate time to start having those discussions about the mechanisms of land transfers in the like.
KDLG: Another thing that folks are watching in regards to Wood-Tikchik State Park, is the management council. So that's a council that has traditionally included local stakeholders like the villages in the park, and agencies—you have been a member. Back in January, Governor Dunleavy moved to eliminate that council and put its decision making power under the Department of Natural Resources.
That move was then overturned by the state legislature, so the council is still there. But it looks like there are currently some seats vacant. I'm wondering if you can talk about what the status is at the council right now. What's the plan to then get those seats filled?
Boyle: My understanding is that there are three seats that are currently populated, and then I believe four vacant seats, which means that there's not a quorum right now for the council to conduct its business. The governor's office, they're the ones that have the responsibilities to seek appointees for these positions, and then get them confirmed in those roles.
Prior to coming out here, I haven't had an opportunity to catch up with them to understand what the potential timeline may be. But clearly, since the legislature disapproved that particular Executive Order, my guess is that over time, those seats will be filled so that the council can be reconstituted, or at least have quorum to then conduct business.
KDLG: Are there any decisions coming up where that timeline might matter?
Boyle: Certainly the hydro project, if it got to that stage, would be one of those areas which the Management Council I'm sure would want to weigh in. I'm assuming that those seats will be filled prior to that point in time.
KDLG: My understanding is that the Department of Natural Resources manages state land. In addition to the state land that your department manages, Bristol Bay is also surrounded by something like 1.2 million acres of federal D-1 land.
At the end of June, the Federal Bureau of Land Management put out an environmental impact statement saying that they think that those lands should be protected. Does the Department of Natural Resources for Alaska have a position on that federal decision?
Boyle: You know, that's one area in which I'm not intimately familiar. I'm not not fully aware of what the implications of that are vis-a-vis other management decisions that are made.
KDLG: When you think about long term projects for Alaska, and the ways that lands might be developed? Are you looking at both state lands and federal lands when you're doing that long term planning? Or do you really stay pretty tightly focused on state?
Boyle: Well, we focus on state land. That's our constitutional mandate. The nexus to federal land really comes into play in that a number of areas of state land are isolated. And so in order to potentially develop those areas of state land—the federal government, exercising those kinds of managerial powers of their own land can certainly have an impact on the state's ability to then develop its own land.
KDLG: Does the State of Alaska end up fighting those decisions in court? Is that something that you could see happening here in Bristol Bay?
Boyle: I would say that the decision making that we're seeing coming out of Washington D.C., in this Biden administration, is certainly pushing us more to needing to just continually litigate against the federal government versus trying to work with them to find solutions.
I happen to have good relationships. And yet, despite a lot of what I would characterize as good faith efforts on behalf of the state to find compromise, to find balance, of how we manage to protect conservation resource values, with also enabling the state to build infrastructure and have resource development—which is so fundamental to growing our state's economy—that we just can't seem to find that common ground. In fact, more and more of the decisions we see coming out of BLM or interior at large, I would argue, are to the extreme detriment of the state.
And so we really are at a point right now where it's dig in and litigate and fight every chance that we get, and hope that in the future, we have an administration that is more susceptible to wanting to work with us and be more reasonable.
KDLG: I know that for some fishermen in Bristol Bay — and obviously different people feel very differently about this — but some folks look at, for example, protecting those federal lands and setting them apart for conservation as something that is going to help ensure the health of the fishery. If that would be something that the state would fight — and would seek other uses for that land — what then would you be doing to make sure that the fishery is still protected in land use decisions?
Boyle: Well, I think that's a complex question. Because it really depends on what you mean by protect the fishery, right? If we take extreme measures of conservation, where we just say, we're not gonna allow any kinds of development, because any kind of development — whether it's building a road, whether it's building a wind farm, whether it's opening a mine, whether it's drilling for more oil and gas — if there's any possibility at all, that that activity could have some impact, maybe very minor on some element of fisheries, or just some other natural system that we don't allow it. To me, you have to do the cost benefit analysis.
And, sure, we could set all of Alaska aside and literally do no more development activity and say to ourselves, Well, we've done everything that we possibly can to promote and protect our salmon habitat and our other wildlife habitat, and we've done our jobs. But the trade off of that is that there would be no more economic growth, there would be no more growth of communities, there would be no more infrastructure, there would be not a lot of other things. So to me, it's all about balance.
And certainly, when you talk about the world class salmon resource in Bristol Bay, it absolutely is an asset worth protecting and cherishing and everything else. But to what magnitude to what extent I think is a legitimate debate. And I think, again, we want to strike the right and proper balance there.
KDLG: So it's salmon season. We're wrapping up, getting towards the tail of that season, but we have folks out on the water who are listening to the show, we have folks who are picking fish in their set nets, or who are at their fish camps processing fish. Anything you would like to share with them?
Boyle: Well, that's a great question. I wish everybody great success. Being here you understand how important fishing is to this community. It literally impacts every element of life out here. Whether it's commercial, whether it's recreational, whether it's subsistence in fishing really is one of those things that brings, I'd say, most Alaskans together.
I love to fish personally. It's great being up in the lakes in the river system and watching other people fish. It made me a little jealous because it was a work trip. And so I wasn't able to wet a line myself, but we certainly want to manage our lands and resources in a way that continues to enable the sustainability of this great industry.
KDLG: Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
Boyle: Yeah, thank you. It's a pleasure.
